Merged Sometimes users get: "You do not have permissions to access this page"

Maszek wrote: I'd say half perfectly, because not all posts in the topic were recovered. The question why this has happened to old posts that were already open to visitors remains unanswered as well.

What do you mean "old" posts? Are you talking about unapproved messages from, say, an earlier version of Kunena? What I think you are saying is that, perhaps, there was a database corruption somewhere along the line. This may, also, be a possible reason for generating the less than helpful "you do not have permissions to access this page" issue. Something else to consider.

Maszek wrote: Other than that, wouldn't it make sense to have a (system) notification for visitors to a post which has access denied that "This post needs to be approved by the moderator!"?

Well now you know what you have to do. I guess you have to be more vigilant in approving messages.

Again, the reason why this situation has occurred is because the category involved in this situation uses Review Posts = Yes (whereas the default value is Review Posts = No). When people use this setting it means that messages are unavailable, they're not accessible, no-one has permission to access the messages until they are approved by a moderator. However, I have a question in reply (because I have not experimented with this setting in K 2.0.2). If you have a topic in a category where you use "Review Posts = Yes" and you have not approved a reply in that topic, does this mean that anyone trying to access the topic (or the page on the topic where there is the yet-to-be-approved message) will get "you do not have permissions to access this page"?

Maszek wrote: It would have prevented me writing at least four post in this thread.

See my question above. Answering my question will help me understand your comment. You may have discovered something that the Kunena developers were not aware of.

sozzled wrote: What do you mean "old" posts? Are you talking about unapproved messages from, say, an earlier version of Kunena?

I was referring to approved messages from an earlier version of Kunena.

What I think you are saying is that, perhaps, there was a database corruption somewhere along the line. This may, also, be a possible reason for generating the less than helpful "you do not have permissions to access this page" issue. Something else to consider.

It seems we're getting to the core of this, if not the bottom!

Well now you know what you have to do. I guess you have to be more vigilant in approving messages.

With new posts, I can always see when the status is "unapproved". When I log in as administrator under tab "Recent topics" a list of posts marked marine blue background appears. The old posts we're discussing above never appeared in such a list, which is why I wasn't alerted to approve them.

Again, the reason why this situation has occurred is because the category involved in this situation uses Review Posts = Yes (whereas the default value is Review Posts = No).

I am very happy having this option, since it is the ultimate defence against spambots!

When people use this setting it means that messages are unavailable, they're not accessible, no-one has permission to access the messages until they are approved by a moderator.

I think it means that posts are invisible--as if they don't exist to the unregistered visitors or registered members (not even the person who posted it).

However, I have a question in reply (because I have not experimented with this setting in K 2.0.2). If you have a topic in a category where you use "Review Posts = Yes" and you have not approved a reply in that topic, does this mean that anyone trying to access the topic (or the page on the topic where there is the yet-to-be-approved message) will get "you do not have permissions to access this page"?

Okay, I created an account for a new user, because I know Kunena has different policies for administrators (such as use of reCaptcha).

I posted a new topic as Maszek

I logged off and logged back in as the same user (Maszek). The message is not visible:

I logged off again and logged in as my girl friend (she willingly shared her password with me):

For her, it's as if the topic does not exist either.


I logged off once more and logged in as admin:

You can guess what happens after I approve it: it becomes visible to anyone.

See my question above. Answering my question will help me understand your comment. You may have discovered something that the Kunena developers were not aware of.

Hah! at first I was going to answer that I'm not cheap and it costs $ 50.- to get my answer. Then I thought: "why not help the K-ommunity a step forward?" Hopefully this is an asnwer to your question.

Yes, but in the images you posted, there was no "you do not have permissions to access this page".

I accept that there may have been an issue with "old" messages - messages that may or may not been approved - being in the database at the time when you upgraded from an older version of Kunena (before K 2.0) to K 2.0.x. These things happen and I think that's something we all have to accept. The ultimate mechanism to progress software anomalies arising from badly-formed data is, as we all know, to change the data. We receive queries like yours often; within a self-help forum context there is little we can do except wave a finger in the general direction of the database and hope for the best. Obviously, if these issues are critical and someone really requires prompt, professional, attention to the problem then one also has to accept that prompt, professional, one-on-one attention to such problems comes at a premium price, too.

I agree with you that Review Posts = Yes is the ultimate defence against spam. There is also a new feature in K 2.0:

Forum Configuration » Security » Security Settings » Moderate New Users

Have you tried it? In effect, by apply this setting (changing the value to a non-zero positive number) the first n messages posted by a new user will all be subject to moderation review. This also means that, for example, if you set the value to 1 (and someone posts 600 messages before you have approved the first one), none of a new user's messages will appear on your forum until you have approved the number you set. We are considering using this feature here, ourselves, at K.org.

Getting back to the topic: I really need to know the answer to this question:

Let's say we have a topic in a category where you use "Review Posts = Yes" with more than one message already posted, approved, and visible. Let's say, for argument's sake you have 35 replies in it. Now someone else posts a reply into that topic. What I want to know is this: What happens when other people try to access the other 35 posts? Do they get the message "you do not have permissions to access this page" on every page in that topic? Do you understand my question?

sozzled wrote: Yes, but in the images you posted, there was no "you do not have permissions to access this page".

Indeed, there wasn't. In my humble opinion, that was an anomaly. I have no explanation for it. No one has.

I accept that there may have been an issue with "old" messages - messages that may or may not been approved - being in the database at the time when you upgraded from an older version of Kunena (before K 2.0) to K 2.0.x. These things happen and I think that's something we all have to accept. The ultimate mechanism to progress software anomalies arising from badly-formed data is, as we all know, to change the data.

...and being open to user feed back, I guess!

We receive queries like yours often; within a self-help forum context there is little we can do except wave a finger in the general direction of the database and hope for the best. Obviously, if these issues are critical and someone really requires prompt, professional, attention to the problem then one also has to accept that prompt, professional, one-on-one attention to such problems comes at a premium price, too.

If it has to be, yes. I could imagine some sort of a 'no cure, less pay' agreement, in such cases though.

I agree with you that Review Posts = Yes is the ultimate defence against spam. There is also a new feature in K 2.0:

Forum Configuration » Security » Security Settings » Moderate New Users

Have you tried it? In effect, by apply this setting (changing the value to a non-zero positive number) the first n messages posted by a new user will all be subject to moderation review. This also means that, for example, if you set the value to 1 (and someone posts 600 messages before you have approved the first one), none of a new user's messages will appear on your forum until you have approved the number you set. We are considering using this feature here, ourselves, at K.org.

I haven't tried it. I seeked refuge in using Stopforumspam combined with the Fly06 plugin as a defence against spambots--in combination with reCaptcha. I was under siege of spambots until I installed/activated these features. Now the spambot traffic is reduced to a handful of blocked users per day (they are my " schadenfreude ").
Regarding the feature, I understand the rationale behind it, but in my experience, spambots only post one topic per user. I am wondering what the added value is of having the possibility to approve the first post of a user as a 'gatekeeper' for many other posts of the same user. I would assume it fences off real (mal-intended) users rather than spambots--which are operated by machines.
We are getting side tracked, indeed.

Getting back to the topic: I really need to know the answer to this question:

Let's say we have a topic in a category where you use "Review Posts = Yes" with more than one message already posted, approved, and visible. Let's say, for argument's sake you have 35 replies in it. Now someone else posts a reply into that topic. What I want to know is this: What happens when other people try to access the other 35 posts? Do they get the message "you do not have permissions to access this page" on every page in that topic? Do you understand my question?

The category and all the previously approved posts remain perfectly visible. At least in my forum (and apart from the unexplained anomaly referred to above).

Maszek wrote:

Getting back to the topic: I really need to know the answer to this question:

Let's say we have a topic in a category where you use "Review Posts = Yes" with more than one message already posted, approved, and visible. Let's say, for argument's sake you have 35 replies in it. Now someone else posts a reply into that topic. What I want to know is this: What happens when other people try to access the other 35 posts? Do they get the message "you do not have permissions to access this page" on every page in that topic? Do you understand my question?

The category and all the previously approved posts remain perfectly visible. At least in my forum (and apart from the unexplained anomaly referred to above).

This is really the crux of the matter. While we may now have an explanation, in this particular case, for "you do not have permissions to access this page" messages but I also believe that we eliminated the likelihood that there's an ongoing serious functional defect in the Kunena product in new installations. That is good news.

We have had an interesting discussion. As you can see - and others will also see - getting to the root of the "randomness" of less-than-helpful messages like "you do not have permissions to access this page" is not always straightforward and these things require scientific evaluation of all the available evidence. My main concern, in dealing with the topic, focused on the word "sometimes".

In a community-driven, self-help forum, it's really very difficult to reach the heart of a problem quickly. Obviously we would have gotten there sooner if this had been done one-on-one but I have to agree that we've now reached the point where we cannot go further in this particular case. I also think we would both agree that the issue is not critical and that most features in the affected forum function satisfactorily (for the greater part) but that there will be anomalous issues arising from time to time that will need to be managed as and when they arise.

As far as "self-help" is concerned, this really means that we point out the general [theoretical] approach but that we may not always be able to provide specific answers that target every individual case that arises.

I've asked the testing team to review this topic. I've also asked the development team to look into this matter, too. We appreciate the solid constructive feedback we've received. What happens next I cannot say at this time.

Eventually, I figured out how to re-create the post myself in the SQL database. I taught myself how to recognise the tables in the backup .SQL-file and look for strings that I needed to locate the missing post. I had a back-up version from a couple of months ago which allowed me copy-paste the text.
It was interesting because all db entries for the post were present (_kunena_attachement; _kunena_categories; kunena_messages; kunena_topics) except the one for kunena_messages_text.

I saved you the trouble and myself the money and I am more equipped the next time to do this on my own. Needless to say that me consultancy fee has increased a bit tonight!