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Kunena 5.2.4 and Blue eagle 1.6.4 released (04 Apr 2021)

The Kunena team has announce the arrival of Kunena 5.2.4 [K 5.2.4] which is now available for download as a native Joomla extension for J! 3.9.x. This version addresses most of the issues that were discovered in K 5.2 and issues discovered during the development stages of K 5.2.4

REQUIREMENTS
Blue Eagle 1.6.x requires Kunena 5.2.x to work with, this template isn't designed to works with Bootstrap 3 and Bootstrap 4.

× Topics contains old discussions (generally more than one year ago or based on circumstances that subsequently changed) or topics resolved in other ways. Topics moved into this category are closed from further discussion.

Question Standard (consistent) Terminology?!

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11 years 2 months ago - 11 years 2 months ago #1 by oldmoldy
This comment from a webmaster with 40 years of research, product development, software development, usability and system engineering experience: The Kunena forum extension has great potential but one of the problems I find as new to Kunena is a collection of terms that appear on buttons and tabs that have easily confused meanings .
  • Thread - like Topic but different
  • Topic - like Forum but actually contained in Forum. Discussions usually have a Topic and sometimes several Threads within the Topic.
  • Forum - Sometimes stands for the place where a Discussion is held (substitute for Kunena in this case). The same as Discussion or not? . Why do we need Forum and Discussion? The user interface is confusing. Discussions often involve topics but forums are places where discussions are held. Discussions have protocols. Forums have...?
  • Discussion - like Forum or not? The user interface provides a list of Topics but not a list of Discussions (although there is a tab to collect My Discussions
  • Reply - a thread that continues a discussion?...maybe an answer but maybe not...not a New Thread
  • Reply Topic - appears to be a reply...why add a qualifier Topic?...more likely a continuing Thread
  • Quick Reply - Why not Formatted Reply or better still...why not just the same as a single 'button' for Reply and a button in the reply window to turn on or turn off the formatting features
The meaning of these terms is not transparently obvious to the casual observer. Please remember that there are so many competing tools for communication these days that new users need to find a crisp tutorial that defines these terms and provides usage examples since we are all casual observers of a new tool at one point in our technology lives.
Last edit: 11 years 2 months ago by oldmoldy.

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11 years 2 months ago - 11 years 2 months ago #2 by sozzled
Thank you, oldmoldy, this is a great discussion topic. Can I add my own observations to yours? (Well, that was a rhetorical question, because I am going to anyway):

The Wiki article How to create Categories, Forums and Subforums attempts to define some of these terms. I must admit that I use many of these words interchangeably. After using bulletin boards, threaded comments, discussion boards and forums (Ack!) for as long as the internet as been in the public domain (about 15 years) the array of jargon is bewildering.

So here are my thoughts on what the words actually mean in a Kunena context:
  • Board (n.): The entire collection of discussion, topics, forums and categories that are provided by a website. The term is formal and considered outdated by most users.
  • Topic (n.): A new message posted to the forum as the start of a discrete discussion, corresponding, in a technical sense, to the formation of a parent thread, as the result of pressing the "new thread" button. This is where the expression "new thread" causes confusion.
  • Sub-topic (n.): The continuation of a topic, but, in a technical sense, corresponding to the formation a child thread that relates to a specific parent topic, as the result of pressing the "reply topic" button.
  • Thread (n.): 1. In a formal sense, a topic and its replies and, by association, any child threads. In the Kunena context, where it is not possible to appreciate the threaded view of a discussion (see SPLIT Function / Option for details) the latter use is not particular meaningful. Theoretically, threads within a discussion can be split to create new separate topics. 2. In an informal sense, the term is used interchangeably with discussion.
  • Discussion (n.): a discrete collection of threads starting with a topic and its replies and including child threads. The term is often used interchangeably with thread, particularly if the discussion is short.
  • New Thread (v.): the action that adds a new message to the forum and establishes a new topic and thereby initiates a new discussion.
  • Reply (v.): the action that adds a new message to a thread and continues an existing discussion
  • Reply Topic (v.): the action that adds a new message to a discussion, and continues an existing discussion, but creates a new sub-topic within the discussion
  • Forum (n.): 1. In the formal sense, a collection of discussions, grouped together in an arbitrary manner. For example, in the sample data that's installed with Kunena, "Welcome Mat" is a forum. Also known as a level-1 forum. 2. In an informal, everyday sense, the forum means the same as the board.
  • Sub-forum (n.): Sometimes referred to as a child board Also known as a level-2 forum.
  • Category (n.): a discrete collection of forums and any sub-forums. For example, in the sample data that's installed with Kunena, "Main Forum" is a category. Also known as a level-0 forum.
  • Quick Reply (v.): the action that adds a new message to a thread but lacks the presentation features of the Reply facility. It is used when quick, unformatted replies are needed. Although lacking the GUI, BBCode can be still be used.
Last edit: 11 years 2 months ago by sozzled.

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11 years 2 months ago #3 by oldmoldy
I appreciate your initial response. Facts are helpful...the next level of examination in this thread should consider how can we reduce the number of these terms (and their corresponding uniqueness) in the user interface. Many people new to the tool would benefit if we simplify what a user sees and needs to know in order to use Kunena. Can we simplify the Human Machine Interface without losing function?
  • Can we manage with only one Reply button and handle the Quick Reply option with a 'Hide Format/Show Format toggle in the Reply frame?
  • Can we substitute Topic for Thread (or Thread for Topic) and survive on one term in the HMI?
  • I think it does a disservice to great software when we carry along distinct terms like Discussion, Thread and Topic when one can really suffice (in context)
  • Can we get by with fewer tool icons and a standard placement for them than in various places around the screen?
Do we need to carry all the terminology with us to our graves? There is a reason that IBM and Microsoft standardized menus and toolbars two and a half decades ago before Microsoft forgot what they had learned and brought about a new plague with the Office 2007 ribbon interface

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11 years 2 months ago #4 by sozzled
Your Questions:
  • Can we manage with only one Reply button and handle the Quick Reply option with a 'Hide Format/Show Format toggle in the Reply frame? As I tried to explain earlier, the Reply and Reply topic buttons actually do different things - it's just that their effects are unnoticeable in the current implementation of Kunena. The Quick Reply function is, perhaps of some limited use to those people who have slow internet connections. I don't use it a lot myself.
  • Can we substitute Topic for Thread (or Thread for Topic) and survive on one term in the HMI? This has already been done in K 1.6. I will post a screenshot of the proposed user message-editing interface later today.
  • I think it does a disservice to great software when we carry along distinct terms like Discussion, Thread and Topic when one can really suffice (in context) I agree. We don't all speak English, either. The issue is that everyone has their own background with a host of discussion forums, bulletin boards, or whatever they were called, each with its own peculiar jargon and folklore. We do not want to be too restrictive here, at www.kunena.com, to ignore the possibility (or likely probability) that users will misuse a term or will not know the correct term for their situation. Vive la différance. Qu'il vienne, la révolution!
  • Can we get by with fewer tool icons and a standard placement for them than in various places around the screen? Considerable progress has been made in this department since the time of Fireboard (the forerunner of Kunena) and the overall design has been streamlined in the forthcoming version. See my running 'blog: Kunena 1.6 - a moderator's view .

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11 years 3 weeks ago #5 by sozzled
One of these days I'm going to write an article in the Wiki that tries to clear up some of the inconsistencies we use with Kunena terminology. In the meantime, this topic will just have to do.

I'm going to repeat what I wrote earlier and add a new term to the list:So here are my thoughts on what the words actually mean in a Kunena context:
  • Board (n.): The entire collection of discussion, topics, forums and categories that are provided by a website. The term is formal and considered outdated by most users.
  • Topic (n.): A new message posted to the forum as the start of a discrete discussion, corresponding, in a technical sense, to the formation of a parent thread, as the result of pressing the "new thread" button. This is where the expression "new thread" causes confusion.
  • Sub-topic (n.): The continuation of a topic, but, in a technical sense, corresponding to the formation a child thread that relates to a specific parent topic, as the result of pressing the "reply topic" button.
  • Thread (n.): 1. In a formal sense, a topic and its replies and, by association, any child threads. In the Kunena context, where it is not possible to appreciate the threaded view of a discussion (see SPLIT Function / Option for details) the latter use is not particular meaningful. Theoretically, threads within a discussion can be split to create new separate topics. 2. In an informal sense, the term is used interchangeably with discussion.
  • Discussion (n.): a discrete collection of threads starting with a topic and its replies and including child threads. The term is often used interchangeably with thread, particularly if the discussion is short.
  • New Thread (v.): the action that adds a new message to the forum and establishes a new topic and thereby initiates a new discussion.
  • Reply (v.): the action that adds a new message to a thread and continues an existing discussion
  • Reply Topic (v.): the action that adds a new message to a discussion, and continues an existing discussion, but creates a new sub-topic within the discussion
  • Forum (n.): 1. In the formal Kunena sense, a collection of discussions, grouped together in an arbitrary manner. For example, in the sample data that's installed with Kunena, "Welcome Mat" is a forum. Also known as a level-1 forum. 2. In an informal, everyday sense, the forum means the same as the board.
  • Sub-forum (n.): Sometimes referred to as a child board Also known as a level-2 forum.
  • Category (n.): a discrete collection of forums and any sub-forums. For example, in the sample data that's installed with Kunena, "Main Forum" is a category. Also known as a level-0 forum. You cannot post or move messages into a category.
  • Section (n.): a level-0 forum; a category.
  • Quick Reply (v.): the action that adds a new message to a thread but lacks the presentation features of the Reply facility. It is used when quick, unformatted replies are needed. Although lacking the GUI, BBCode can be still be used.

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