Question template system

a few time ago, when i heard that kunena team would change kunena's template system with version 1.6x, i was really excited. i thought new template system will be css based. but when i finally test kunena 1.6x, i really disappointed. the template system sucks.

for example css files has more than thousand row but templates still addicted to php files. and for example icons and button images grouped a single png file, but to show an icon or button there are a lot of code at css file. i never talking about the difficulties customizing this icons and making a new template. what is the cost of seperated image files each icons and buttons like old kunena templates? theese are only i can remember.

kunena deserves a better template system. i hope theese are the complications of getting a new release and will change soon. pardon me if i was rude, but somebody must be bad guy...

Hi, and thanks for your feedback.

The template system in Kunena 1.5 was very difficult to work with so 1.6 is a *huge* improvement over the previous version (which was a big improvement over Fireboard). But template changes are directly connected to the output structure in Kunena 1.6 so we couldn't totally redo things in 1.6. But, as I said, it's a huge improvement over previous versions.

The templates are divided into parts for greater flexibility. For example, main forum page lists the categories, Who Is Online, Statistics, etc. Each part is separated because many parts are reused in other areas of the forum. If template files were combined and you wanted to change the Who Is Online section, you'd have to change the Who Is Online section for the main page, the topic page, the category page, and all other pages where it's used. The way it is now, you make the one change and it reflects everywhere on your forum. Now *that* would be a bad template system. It's also a question of speed and caching. Forums are faster when they cache reusable files. Doesn't that make better sense?

The icons use a CSS sprite, which means all the icons are in a single image. Using CSS, only the right image is shown. Sprites are a far superior way to display images (especially many small ones) because it makes page loads faster, reduces server hits, etc. Here's more info on how they work:

css-tricks.com/css-sprites/

There are a number of free sprite generators out there that create these sprites for you. Just upload your images and the final sprite image along with CSS are created automatically.

Performance-wise, using sprites and PHP includes increase your site speed and your Google page rank. If you use a tool like YSlow or Page Speed, you get higher ratings.

developer.yahoo.com/yslow/

code.google.com/speed/page-speed/

Using sprites for images that don't change on the rest of your site has a number of great benefits. The cost of separate images is a slower forum and lower ranking. It's that worth it? For us, no.

So, while the template system isn't perfect, it's really good for what it is. And going forward, Kunena 2.0 templates will be even easier. If you have specific suggestions about how to improve the system other than "it sucks," feel free to share your ideas.

thanks for reply.

for example css main file can split a few more css files like buttons.css, icons.css, main.css etc. i think this can ease customizing elements.
and the admin tools can deployed under a slider menü like this:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


so my main poin is template system must be more css based as it can be. and more flexible to customize. i think the only thing about kunena is its template system. if it gets better, kunena gets perfect...

Unfortunately, when you break up the CSS file into many smaller ones, you increase the number of hits on your server (like the reason I mentioned for using CSS sprites). This can affect performance, especially on larger forums. There are some template clubs that do this to add a zillion template parameters, but it's a bad idea since it exponentially increases the number of hits.

Kunena 1.6 currently uses a "main" CSS file for common elements, structure, spacing, etc. (kunena.forum.css) and a "style" CSS file for colors (kunena.default.css). This separates out the style elements you might want to customize. It increases the number of CSS server hits from 1 to 2, but it's worth it for a lot more flexibility (like the blending feature).

For the moderator tools, our users have told us they prefer to see all the buttons, but I'd like to see a new poll to see if that's still accurate. If you think there's support for it, create a poll and let's see how it goes.

i think you dont like hearing new ideas. theese are only ideas, they can be good or bad, so you can ragard it or not, your choice. as i said before, someone must be the bad guy.

really it shows huge differency at performance? i dont have a zillion users, so i really wonder percentage of differency... 50%, 25%, 1% or 0,1% or less??? can you give me a value?

by the way i cant see the poll button to open a poll subject, so forget it...

sorry for critiques. kunena is best, templates are wonderful and template system rocks. good job fellas. continue on this way

If I wasn't open to hearing new ideas, I wouldn't have you requested you post them. Dunno why someone has to be the "bad guy" as long as the conversation remains polite.

I didn't say it was a "huge difference." I said that it affects performance. The actual value will depend on your site, your server configuration, your traffic, and a number of other things. Of all the forum options, Kunena has the best track record for stability and performance for a reason—we focus on all the details that affect these things.

Apparently, there's an issue with polls that's being worked on. Feel free to post a poll when it's back online.