Kunena 6.2.5 & module Kunena Latest 6.0.7 released

The Kunena team has announce the arrival of Kunena 6.2.5 [K 6.2.5] which is now available for download as a native Joomla extension for J! 4.3.x/4.4.x/5.0.x. This version addresses most of the issues that were discovered in K 6.1 / K 6.2 and issues discovered during the last development stages of K 6.2

Topics contains old discussions (generally more than one year ago or based on circumstances that subsequently changed) or topics resolved in other ways. Topics moved into this category are closed from further discussion.

Question Nooku Framework

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13 years 11 months ago #21 by woonydanny
Replied by woonydanny on topic Re: Nooku Framework
sozzled wrote:

Randal: Thank you for your input and for your display of overwhelming enthusiasm for Nooku. Three of the developers of the Kunena project have already provided you with feedback: Matias and severdia have stated that they have no interest in Nooku in the immediate or medium-term (and, by medium-term we can safely assume that to mean the next 12 months); xillibit has intimated his disinterest in this topic.

As I see it, the evidence says "no to Nooku". 12 months from now, who knows? The developers do not have to justify their reasons but they have been generous in discussing this subject with you and with others

We do respect the various opinions and contributions made by the members of this site and we actively seek them out but that does not mean that we always agree with them. You are entitled to express an opinion as we are also entitled to express ours. However, this invitation cuts both ways and does not extend a licence to abuse the goodwill we offer.

I believe we have tolerated this persistence, bordering on obsession, with Nooku for long enough. I feel that I acted quite properly and courteously when I advised you to allow this matter to take its natural course. I would not admit that my earlier response was a rebuke - nor would I say that my response now is any more a rebuke. In fact, I am offended that you would consider my remarks were in the least bit disingenuous. I am only clarifying the situation for you.

You have your answer: Kunena will not use Nooku. Simple - that's what you asked for. Let's leave this discussion alone. Thank you. :)


Well worded and said sozz!

still wish that i can write my forum signature through a jomsocial plugin and do it from my jomsocial profile :(

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13 years 11 months ago #22 by severdia
Replied by severdia on topic Re: Nooku Framework
Let me clarify my earlier comments, which may have been misinterpreted. Tone is important and doesn't always translate into plain text. Then I do as sozzled suggests and consider this line of discussion closed. :)

My "disinterest" in Nooku is because we're on different development paths (as I said before). Nooku appears to be a great add-on for the Joomla framework, but it doesn't fit our overall vision and strategy for Kunena. I can't share specifics at the moment to support that statement, but that's defintely the case. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality (or lack thereof) of Nooku's code or it's capabilities. Matias' earlier comment of "maybe in the future" was being nice (he's a nice guy :) ), and I'm more of a "brass tacks" guy who speaks his mind.

On a side note, if if there's already another forum being built on Nooku, what would motivate us to do the same? What would differentiate us? In my opinion, and our strategy aside, that fact alone kills the idea of us using Nooku. As far as products built on Nooku are concerned, that's great for Nooku (and therefore good for Joomla).

My personal view of the open source community is a group of developers "jockeying" for positions of market share. I don't view it as a kum-ba-yah circle which all of us developers sit around singing songs together. So, as I mentioned before, there are plenty of places to promote competing forum products (Nooku-based or not) so they don't need to be promoted here on our "turf." Honest discussions about the pros and cons of each are certainly welcome. But use your best discretion about what crosses a line into blatant promotion. If you don't, we will. Simple as that.

So use Nooku or whatever suits your needs.

Author of Using Joomla from O'Reilly Media. | www.usingjoomlabook.com

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13 years 11 months ago #23 by Matias
Replied by Matias on topic Re: Nooku Framework
Ron got it wrong: I'm always open to new solutions, so I never exclude any possibilities. Nooku looks like a nice framework and I will follow it's development as much as my time permits, but when we were making decisions where to go next -- it was not available. So like Ron said, we chose another path in our development.

It's always possible to review choices, but realistically speaking it's a huge job to rewrite a large component to use another framework and that decision cannot be made too easily. My rough estimation based on earlier knowledge is that it takes 6-12 months to convert Kunena to use any new framework.

It would basically mean that instead of making Kunena 2.x, we would end up being just another stalled project with no visible changes to our users.

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13 years 11 months ago #24 by Randal
Replied by Randal on topic Re: Nooku Framework
Thanks for answers. To clarify situation. I do not promote any software or team. I just wanna give opportunity to talk and hear what you say about this.

First, very good reason give me Matias (this nice guy) above.

"6-12 months to convert Kunena". Yes now I better understand what that change do for development line.

On a side note, if if there's already another forum being built on Nooku, what would motivate us to do the same?

Because my first idea was: If Nooku users can do develop faster and cleaner so why Kunena guys still fighting with standard J! 1.5 framework?

Personally I like what stipsan do, but for me it is not sufficient yet. And I belive that strong Kunena team will provide the best forum for long time coming. So Ninjaboard for now is more like curiosity.

As I wrote before, I try help Kunena by asking and pointing Nooku.

Do you check this really? Do you think it is not like Joomla 2.0? I repeat myself. It's logic for me that if the same guys behind Joomla 1.5 is behind Nooku so they must improve Joomla framework, or they job is without any sense.

mr. Severdia you talk about other development path. So you think Kunena need stay on only Joomla framework to get more integration or something with that direction?

Using Nooku will break some rules, but give some new ways to do things. Faster with more possibilities. But maybe do you personally think Kunena future must be always be combined with core Joomla framework? Now I'm understand your way better?

Maybe it will be good lost 6-12 months to convert if in longer time you will save development time. Lost time return back by easier and more effective coding.


It is only sugestion, you do whatever you want of course. If you want, you do change in future. If not, leave the topic for others to educate users to not ask anymore about Nooku.

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13 years 11 months ago #25 by Cerberus
Replied by Cerberus on topic Re: Nooku Framework
my god im bored of nooku after having to read this topic let alone looking at there site and personaly id be very annoyed if kunena wasnt updated for 12 months, as so far the constant improvement im seeing in this project has been very good.

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13 years 11 months ago #26 by Matias
Replied by Matias on topic Re: Nooku Framework
Well, I just tried to say that we do not have the luxury to loose any more time in our development and we want to finish our current plans before looking forward. That includes K1.6 and eventually K2.0, which will finish our current path.

We are also working closely with Joomla team -- people who are behind J1.6. I believe that Ron referred to it when he talked about our development path. Currently we are not slowed down by limitations of the Joomla framework -- It's our legacy from FB that has to go first.

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13 years 11 months ago - 13 years 11 months ago #27 by Randal
Replied by Randal on topic Re: Nooku Framework
Ok, so now everything is as clear as crystal. For that kind of responses I waited.

So.. new framework maybe in Kunena v2.5 << v3.0 << witch is far far in future thing.

Thanks all for give time to this discussion. I do not back to this topic, but rather focus on helping with 1.6 version.
Last edit: 13 years 11 months ago by Randal.

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13 years 11 months ago #28 by Matias
Replied by Matias on topic Re: Nooku Framework
I'm pretty impressed with the new design of J1.6, even if it has parts that are dated and need improvement (I'm confident those areas will be addressed). Because of that I see no point in choosing an alternative framework.

So we do not have any plans of changing framework for the foreseeable future.

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13 years 5 months ago #29 by fxstein
Replied by fxstein on topic Re: Nooku Framework
I want to provide some more feedback on that topic.

Now that Kunena 1.6 is out there we focus on 1.7 and beyond.

We always look at what is best for the project.

JomSocial is now using the Zend framework, others are using the nooku framework.
We are not happy with either one (and I am sure there are more).

The problem with framework on top of framework is overhead and bloat. Not everything that is advertised as lightweight has anything todo with being lightweight.

We found that some of these frameworks add up to 50% extra memory usage on top of Joomla. You can run Kunena today in as little as 12MB per page view - for the big pages like Index and Latest - on a forum of the size like kunena.com

Everything you add, increases that. Install the Nooku framework and your page footprint goes up to 18-22MB for similar pages. That is very significant.

OOP, if not used extremely carefully can cause significant overhead. Sure, you write less code and let the framework do its magic, but that same framework does a lot of things for you, even in cases where you don't need it to.

Eventually people will try these solutions next to each other and will realize how much extra overhead can get introduced with some of these frameworks.

For Kunena, where we focus on performance and making it more and more enterprise grade, this would be a step in the wrong direction. Now more than ever I am convinced that a framework like Nooku is not the right thing for a forum component.

We love stars on the Joomla Extension Directory . :-)

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13 years 5 months ago #30 by Randal
Replied by Randal on topic Re: Nooku Framework
GREAT ANSWER fxstein! That's why I choose Kunena. Performance is a king. Really I started this topic to have this kind of reaction from developers. I really love pure code. FAST with database optimization. Even I remove some part of Joomla which don't want to use. To have clean base. Now I better understand why we should stay close to core. When I hear first time about Mootools 1.2 in Kunena it was sweet like honey. :)

It's kind of dream that developers keep one track. Really doesn't like so many framework to build one Joomla site. Have for all components only pure joomla with mootools. I hope smartest developers choose this path.

Thank you for this reply.

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