Question K 1.6 sh404SEF stops Thank You, RSS feeds, PDF and message previews

Thanks for your answers,

@xillibit: My site is online, and thousands of users a day visit us. So I setup a copy of my installation and database in a subdomain and tested it. And - i am really sad about this, its sh404sef again. :evil: This problem is also caused by this component. Disabling sh404sef solves all problems. Thank you button, RSS-Feed, Blank preview window and also creating pdf does not work with sh404sef enabled. I did not believe it, because I could not understand the context between blank page in editor with url rewriting.

But it is definitly so.
@sozzled: You see, I am still using it. I told you in the former thread why. You told me some arguments which made me thought provoking.

I posted in the Anything Digital Development Forum. Here you can read this:
dev.anything-digital.com/Forum/sh404SEF/...na-1.6-and-sh404sef/

I dont know if it is allowed to post links to other forums here. Maybe it is interesting for someone who has the same or similar problems. If not - remove it.

They promised to fix it in the next release. So i am still waiting. And if this bugs are not fixed in the next release of sh404sef i will have to uninstall it. But this causes other troubles, our special topics in the forum are dsl-related troubles and problems, and our site is linked from many other sites using the sef-urls, sozzled, I told you this.

But Im sorry, that I had a wrong idea, I mentioned that this is not a sef-problem. But it is.
Thanks for your time and reading this.

regards
bully

Today, the guys of anything digital released a new version of sh404sef, 2.1.7 - and they solved all problems with kunena I have mentioned.

Thank you - working fine
RSS-Feed - working fine
PDF-generating - working fine
and
Preview Window - working fine.

Thank you all!

regards
bully

bully,

Thanks a lot for letting us know. It was as expected.

One word of caution I still want to place here is performance. You page creation times are 1.8-2.2 seconds per Kunena page on the index. (Bottom of the Kunena page). Have you disabled the 3rd Party SEF component to compare the performance? On a decent configured server these pages should buil in 1/2 a second or even less with core SEF turned on.

When you reach 20-30k threads on a forum, most 3rd party SEF solutions will cause significant performance slowdown. While we love these extensions for anything non forum, the amount of unique urls created by active forums, can cause severe performance implications.

If you don't mind refresh the page a couple times, look at the time it too to create the page and take a screenshot, then turn of any 3rd party SEF components, refresh a couple times and when the time is the same between page view takes another screenshot. I am VERY interested of what the performance implications are for a forum like yours.

Thx!

So here are the results. I am very disappointed about the results. I tested two scenarios, the index site of my forum, and a thread with 121 pages of replies:

Kunena with sh404sef enabled:

Indexsite:


Big Thread:


Kunena only with joomla core sef enabled, sh404 disabled:

Indexsite:


Big Thread:



Thats really bad I think, and I have to find a way to cancel my sh404sef - installation :evil:
Some facts about our forum: 2107 members, 25.000 topics, 14 categories.

@fxstein: You are right, this causes significant performance slowdown. What would YOU do?

regards
bully

Thanks for trying this out.

This is exactly what we have seen here on Kunena.com when we used sh404SEF.

I want to be clear about what is going on here. sh404SEF is an awesome platform for small web pages with up to a few hundred or thousand pages. It has great options and I would love to be able to use those on much larger sites. The problem is that forums quickly generate tens of thousands of pages. About a page per post you see, or more, as you have a unique url for various actions for a post.

When we found out that our server was coming to a grinding halt some 15 months ago, we started testing and pretty much came to the same conclusion. A forum + 3rd Party SEF does not mix well.
We turned around and wrote a highly optimized SEF router for Kunena itself. The main difference between 3rd party SEF and and internal router: The internal router can leverage the existing in memory buffers that have been filled to load and generate the current page. We know all the users, all the topics, all the messages we want to display on a page. We load them into memory before we generate the html. Since the are in memory we can use the same buffers for the router, so SEF comes almost free.

A stand alone 3rd party SEF router has no clue what is in memory of another component. Therefore it has two options: write a query for every unique URL on that page, or cache all URLs it finds in a php file. Both options means extreme slowness and server overload when forums exceed 20,000 posts.

A tiny forum will never run into such issue and its the main reason why larger forums often run without SEF.

The Kunena SEF router has been tested to a million posts - performing with literally no overhead compared to non SEF. With K1.7 we are taking this another step further.

Again thanks for sharing. I would seriously take a closer look at Joomla 1.5 native SEF. Maybe you can specify what is missing from there to make your site work as you like.

Hope this helps!

Thank you very much for your input. The problem is there are many links inside our forum based on the sh404 rewritings. And I dont know how to convert it to joomla native sef. I think I must correct it manually through database using phpmyadmin. And thats my fear. Nothing about google links, they will be created new, and the users will find us again.

But that is off topic. THX!

regards
bully

@fxstein
I agree with you in most of points but you're wrong in one:

SEF components are fired by onAfterInitialise trigger but other components are loaded by onAfterDispatch trigger so before you load your data in memory the SEF component has done it's job. I also had a talk with Matias about this.

I wish I had a test site with 20K post so I could test the performance with my SEF compoent.

Also, with K1.6, SEF components will create tons of duplicated SEF URLs coused by different ItemIDs. With AceSEF you can solve this issue by overriding the ItemID of all URLs and make unique but it couses no "tab highlight" and wrong "modules positions". Do you have any function that gets the items of Kunena Menu?

I have been Considering installing a third party SEF component for Kunena and this thread has been very helpful. Its made me reconsider. Thanx.